We welcome comments, however, I ask that you take the time to read the entire post. It seems that this is not the case as evidenced by the last three comments. My question to all is what does the LORD say? 2Timothy 2:15 People
I do not understand how people come to the conclusion that you don’t have to keep God’s commandments or laws, such as the Sabbath Day, Dietary law, Laws on keeping the Feast Days, and not having to read the Old Testament Scriptures. “All you need to know is what is in the New Testament”.
Isaiah wrote that to the Law (Old Testament) and the Testimony (New Testament), if you speak not according to this word there is no light (Truth) in them, Isaiah 8:20.
Now men have started teaching that the law of the circumcision is no more, even though it is an everlasting covenant, Genesis 17:9-14. But Isaiah 24:5 says the Earth is defiled because they transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant, which the Lord made with Abraham, 1 Chronicles 16:14-16.
Now people go and read only the New Testament and misinterpret God’s word by reading the letter that the Apostles wrote in Acts 15. They start out saying you have to be circumcised after the manner of Moses, they should have said after the manner of Abraham. They also said you can not be saved if you are not circumcised. They were right!
When Peter stood up and told them, (Acts 15:7-9), how he preached to the Gentiles in Acts 10, how when they heard the Word they received it with gladness. They were not circumcised, even as Abraham was not circumcised when the Lord promised to give him and his seed after him, the land of Canaan, Romans 4:10.
However, no one understands that after the Lord told Abraham how He would bless him and his seed that he received the sign of the circumcision. It was a sign of Faith; that is that he believed God, Romans 4:11.
We read that as soon as the Lord left off talking with Abraham, he circumcised every male in his house, his son as well as those bought with his money, the same day that God had spoken with him. Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, because he believed all that the Lord had told him. And, the Lord said that the stranger shall be circumcised as well, if he is a part of Abraham’s household.
Now, the circumcision was to done in every generation for an everlasting covenant. How long is everlasting? That should be the end of the matter, because the Lord said, it is an everlasting covenant, Genesis 17:13.
Now we must continue on because some do not read the scriptures (Old Testament) because there is no light (Truth) in them. Let’s see how the Lord feels about the circumcision, because He says that the man that is not circumcised shall be cut off from his people (Whose people? The Lord’s people).
Let’s take a look at a man that the Lord loved very much, turn to Numbers 12:1-8, we read where Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and the Lord heard their conversation as they were chiding with Moses. The Lord called them to the Tabernacle of the Congregation, He told Aaron and Miriam, Hear my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses, is not so, who is faithful in all Mine house. I speak to him apparently mouth to mouth, and not in dark speeches and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: Wherefore were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses. As you can see the Lord really loved Moses. Turn to Exodus 4:19-26, we read where the Lord is sending Moses to Egypt to tell Pharaoh to let His people go. As Moses was on his way, the Lord sought to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. But his wife circumcised their son, so the Lord let him go.
Now, what do you think the Lord will do to you if he sought to kill Moses, who was faithful in all His house, about not keeping the Law of the circumcision?
As we continue to travel through the Scriptures turn to Exodus 12, where we read that the Lord instituted the Passover, so that He may Passover our sins, in verses :43-49, the Lord said that no uncircumcised person shall eat the Passover. This is an ordinance spoken by the mouth of the Lord, one law for all. For Israel, and for the stranger that would sojourn with Israel. Now, after reading these verses about the circumcision you would think that would be enough—because this was spoken by the Lord and not some man. Did you notice that when the children of the Egyptians did not eat the Passover that there was not a house that there was not one dead. Why? For one thing, they could not partake of the Passover, because they were not circumcised.
What really goes over everyone’s head—that says the circumcision is no more—is that they forget that the Passover of eating the Lamb and putting the blood over the lintel and two side posts, in Exodus12:22-24, that the Destroying Angel would Passover the door and not destroy you.
Well, that lamb of the Passover was the forerunner to the true Lamb of the Passover, Jesus, who comes to take away the sins of the world, John 1:29. When Jesus was about to be sacrificed for our sins, He did away with eating the lamb on Passover, Matthew 26:26-28. He put forth the bread for His body and the Wine for His blood, (this is the New Testament), that is shed for many. Jesus became the Passover Lamb. He has become our Passover, 1 Corinthians 5:7. As Jesus was eating the Passover with His disciples they must have all been circumcised.
So, I ask, can you partake of the Passover of the bread and the wine if you are not circumcised, or be under the blood of Jesus Christ, who has become our Passover?
Let’s go back to the Scriptures (Old Testament), read in Joshua and we see how he had to circumcise all the males because they were not circumcised by their parents in the wilderness, Joshua 5:2-9. Why did Joshua have to circumcise the children? Because the Lord said so, Joshua 5:2, and the children of Israel kept the Passover on the fourteenth day in the plains of Jericho. They could not have kept the Passover if they were not circumcised.
As you can see all the people that came out of Egypt were circumcised, but they did not circumcise their children, because they were disobedient. The Lord had Joshua to circumcise all the males before they came into the land which the Lord would give them. Just as all the children that came out of Egypt were circumcised, all the children that came into the Promised Land were circumcised, because the Lord does not change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8).
He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever.
In Ezekiel 43:1-7 we read the scripture that is prophecy for the future. We see the Lord is on the earth, (because he came from the East, not from heaven), He has at this time been on the Earth, with His Saints and Angels for a couple of years—more on this later—He came to His house, (Who built the house that the Lord came to? More on this later.)
Now the Lord spoke to Ezekiel out of the house, Ezekiel 44:1-9, concerning all the ordinances of the House of the Lord. He spoke about bringing strangers that are not circumcised in the “heart and in the flesh” into His house to pollute it; that they had broken His covenant because of their abominations. He made it very clear in Ezekiel 44:9 that no uncircumcised stranger shall enter His house. Why does this still apply in the future? Because, the Lord does not change.
When did this happen? Let’s go to the past, yesterday. In Acts 15, we read about the Apostles and Elders were talking about the Word coming to the Gentiles and if they should be circumcised. Why they has this dispute is beyond me, because the Lord said that the stranger among you should be circumcised, also, in the flesh, (Exodus 12:48, Deuteronomy 9:14), if he is to become a member of the Lord’s house, Isaiah 56:6-7. The Lord’s house shall be a “house of prayer for all people”.
After they wrote this letter that is spoken of in Acts 15, Paul in the very next chapter—with the letter in hand—still went and circumcised Timothy. Why did he do this if the circumcision was not to be kept by the stranger, because Timothy’s father was Greek, Acts 16:1-4?
Now, if Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles, (Romans11:13), circumcised Timothy, who was a Gentile, would he not have also circumcised the rest of the Gentiles that believed in Jesus Christ?
Remember what Peter said in 2Peter 1:19-20, “We have a more sure word of prophecy and that no scripture is of any private interpretation”. When Peter was speaking of scripture, he was referring to the Old Testament. He also wrote that Paul’s writings were hard to be understood, and that they that are unlearned and untaught wrestled with the scriptures (Old Testament) as well as Paul’s writings to their own destruction, 2Peter 3:15-17.
In John 8:39, Jesus tells us that if you were Abraham’s seed you would do the works of Abraham. One of his works is that he circumcised himself, his sons, and all the males in his house.
I ask you, how are you to become a part of the covenant if you are not circumcised, for this is a sign of the covenant? Even our Lord Jesus Christ was circumcised (Luke 2:21) when He was eight days old.
Paul said that the circumcision profits much in every way, in keeping the oracles of God, Romans 3:1-2. Because in time past the Gentiles were strangers from the covenants of promise and aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and having no hope in the world, but through the blood of Jesus you are no more strangers but fellow citizens with the saints and a member of the household of God (Israel), when you come under His blood, (Ephesians 2:11-12, :18-20.
So, if you are not circumcised, become circumcised and keep His sayings. If you are circumcised, keep His sayings, 1Corinthians 7:19. Jesus tells us in Luke 4:4, that man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord, Deuteronomy 8:3.
So, Abraham is circumcised, Moses is circumcised, Paul is circumcised, all the apostles are circumcised, Timothy was circumcised by Paul after the dispute about the circumcision, even our Lord and Savior is circumcised. Are you? If not, then hedge your bet and become circumcised. Better to be safe than sorry.
In doing this you will be making a covenant with our Lord and the Father, that you will be obedient to all of His laws and commandments, Galatians 4:28-29.
Peace,
Brother Tyrone
Isaiah wrote that to the Law (Old Testament) and the Testimony (New Testament), if you speak not according to this word there is no light (Truth) in them, Isaiah 8:20.
Now men have started teaching that the law of the circumcision is no more, even though it is an everlasting covenant, Genesis 17:9-14. But Isaiah 24:5 says the Earth is defiled because they transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, broke the everlasting covenant, which the Lord made with Abraham, 1 Chronicles 16:14-16.
Now people go and read only the New Testament and misinterpret God’s word by reading the letter that the Apostles wrote in Acts 15. They start out saying you have to be circumcised after the manner of Moses, they should have said after the manner of Abraham. They also said you can not be saved if you are not circumcised. They were right!
When Peter stood up and told them, (Acts 15:7-9), how he preached to the Gentiles in Acts 10, how when they heard the Word they received it with gladness. They were not circumcised, even as Abraham was not circumcised when the Lord promised to give him and his seed after him, the land of Canaan, Romans 4:10.
However, no one understands that after the Lord told Abraham how He would bless him and his seed that he received the sign of the circumcision. It was a sign of Faith; that is that he believed God, Romans 4:11.
We read that as soon as the Lord left off talking with Abraham, he circumcised every male in his house, his son as well as those bought with his money, the same day that God had spoken with him. Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, because he believed all that the Lord had told him. And, the Lord said that the stranger shall be circumcised as well, if he is a part of Abraham’s household.
Now, the circumcision was to done in every generation for an everlasting covenant. How long is everlasting? That should be the end of the matter, because the Lord said, it is an everlasting covenant, Genesis 17:13.
Now we must continue on because some do not read the scriptures (Old Testament) because there is no light (Truth) in them. Let’s see how the Lord feels about the circumcision, because He says that the man that is not circumcised shall be cut off from his people (Whose people? The Lord’s people).
Let’s take a look at a man that the Lord loved very much, turn to Numbers 12:1-8, we read where Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and the Lord heard their conversation as they were chiding with Moses. The Lord called them to the Tabernacle of the Congregation, He told Aaron and Miriam, Hear my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known to him in a vision and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses, is not so, who is faithful in all Mine house. I speak to him apparently mouth to mouth, and not in dark speeches and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: Wherefore were you not afraid to speak against My servant Moses. As you can see the Lord really loved Moses. Turn to Exodus 4:19-26, we read where the Lord is sending Moses to Egypt to tell Pharaoh to let His people go. As Moses was on his way, the Lord sought to kill Moses because he had not circumcised his son. But his wife circumcised their son, so the Lord let him go.
Now, what do you think the Lord will do to you if he sought to kill Moses, who was faithful in all His house, about not keeping the Law of the circumcision?
As we continue to travel through the Scriptures turn to Exodus 12, where we read that the Lord instituted the Passover, so that He may Passover our sins, in verses :43-49, the Lord said that no uncircumcised person shall eat the Passover. This is an ordinance spoken by the mouth of the Lord, one law for all. For Israel, and for the stranger that would sojourn with Israel. Now, after reading these verses about the circumcision you would think that would be enough—because this was spoken by the Lord and not some man. Did you notice that when the children of the Egyptians did not eat the Passover that there was not a house that there was not one dead. Why? For one thing, they could not partake of the Passover, because they were not circumcised.
What really goes over everyone’s head—that says the circumcision is no more—is that they forget that the Passover of eating the Lamb and putting the blood over the lintel and two side posts, in Exodus12:22-24, that the Destroying Angel would Passover the door and not destroy you.
Well, that lamb of the Passover was the forerunner to the true Lamb of the Passover, Jesus, who comes to take away the sins of the world, John 1:29. When Jesus was about to be sacrificed for our sins, He did away with eating the lamb on Passover, Matthew 26:26-28. He put forth the bread for His body and the Wine for His blood, (this is the New Testament), that is shed for many. Jesus became the Passover Lamb. He has become our Passover, 1 Corinthians 5:7. As Jesus was eating the Passover with His disciples they must have all been circumcised.
So, I ask, can you partake of the Passover of the bread and the wine if you are not circumcised, or be under the blood of Jesus Christ, who has become our Passover?
Let’s go back to the Scriptures (Old Testament), read in Joshua and we see how he had to circumcise all the males because they were not circumcised by their parents in the wilderness, Joshua 5:2-9. Why did Joshua have to circumcise the children? Because the Lord said so, Joshua 5:2, and the children of Israel kept the Passover on the fourteenth day in the plains of Jericho. They could not have kept the Passover if they were not circumcised.
As you can see all the people that came out of Egypt were circumcised, but they did not circumcise their children, because they were disobedient. The Lord had Joshua to circumcise all the males before they came into the land which the Lord would give them. Just as all the children that came out of Egypt were circumcised, all the children that came into the Promised Land were circumcised, because the Lord does not change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8).
He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever.
In Ezekiel 43:1-7 we read the scripture that is prophecy for the future. We see the Lord is on the earth, (because he came from the East, not from heaven), He has at this time been on the Earth, with His Saints and Angels for a couple of years—more on this later—He came to His house, (Who built the house that the Lord came to? More on this later.)
Now the Lord spoke to Ezekiel out of the house, Ezekiel 44:1-9, concerning all the ordinances of the House of the Lord. He spoke about bringing strangers that are not circumcised in the “heart and in the flesh” into His house to pollute it; that they had broken His covenant because of their abominations. He made it very clear in Ezekiel 44:9 that no uncircumcised stranger shall enter His house. Why does this still apply in the future? Because, the Lord does not change.
When did this happen? Let’s go to the past, yesterday. In Acts 15, we read about the Apostles and Elders were talking about the Word coming to the Gentiles and if they should be circumcised. Why they has this dispute is beyond me, because the Lord said that the stranger among you should be circumcised, also, in the flesh, (Exodus 12:48, Deuteronomy 9:14), if he is to become a member of the Lord’s house, Isaiah 56:6-7. The Lord’s house shall be a “house of prayer for all people”.
After they wrote this letter that is spoken of in Acts 15, Paul in the very next chapter—with the letter in hand—still went and circumcised Timothy. Why did he do this if the circumcision was not to be kept by the stranger, because Timothy’s father was Greek, Acts 16:1-4?
Now, if Paul who was the Apostle to the Gentiles, (Romans11:13), circumcised Timothy, who was a Gentile, would he not have also circumcised the rest of the Gentiles that believed in Jesus Christ?
Remember what Peter said in 2Peter 1:19-20, “We have a more sure word of prophecy and that no scripture is of any private interpretation”. When Peter was speaking of scripture, he was referring to the Old Testament. He also wrote that Paul’s writings were hard to be understood, and that they that are unlearned and untaught wrestled with the scriptures (Old Testament) as well as Paul’s writings to their own destruction, 2Peter 3:15-17.
In John 8:39, Jesus tells us that if you were Abraham’s seed you would do the works of Abraham. One of his works is that he circumcised himself, his sons, and all the males in his house.
I ask you, how are you to become a part of the covenant if you are not circumcised, for this is a sign of the covenant? Even our Lord Jesus Christ was circumcised (Luke 2:21) when He was eight days old.
Paul said that the circumcision profits much in every way, in keeping the oracles of God, Romans 3:1-2. Because in time past the Gentiles were strangers from the covenants of promise and aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and having no hope in the world, but through the blood of Jesus you are no more strangers but fellow citizens with the saints and a member of the household of God (Israel), when you come under His blood, (Ephesians 2:11-12, :18-20.
So, if you are not circumcised, become circumcised and keep His sayings. If you are circumcised, keep His sayings, 1Corinthians 7:19. Jesus tells us in Luke 4:4, that man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord, Deuteronomy 8:3.
So, Abraham is circumcised, Moses is circumcised, Paul is circumcised, all the apostles are circumcised, Timothy was circumcised by Paul after the dispute about the circumcision, even our Lord and Savior is circumcised. Are you? If not, then hedge your bet and become circumcised. Better to be safe than sorry.
In doing this you will be making a covenant with our Lord and the Father, that you will be obedient to all of His laws and commandments, Galatians 4:28-29.
Peace,
Brother Tyrone
20 comments:
Less than 5% of the world's Christians circumcise. For Catholics it is expressly forbidden.
The Holy Roman Church "...strictly orders all who glory in the name of Christian, not to practise circumcision either before or after baptism, since whether or not they place their hope in it, it cannot possibly be observed without loss of eternal salvation."
From Cantate Domino, re-affiirmed by Pope Pius XII in 1952
http://www.catholicsagainstcircumcision.org
So how do you reconcile Galatians 5:2 "Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing."?
Mark,
You said….”less than 5% of the world’s Christians…”
Christian means to be Christ-like/like Christ. If you have read my Brother’s post you know that Jesus Christ was circumcised on the eight day. “Be like Christ”.
It matters not what Roman Catholicism says, the pope (VICARIUS FILII DEI which means Vicar of the Son of God ) may be you “substitute for Christ, he most definitely is not ours. Jesus is Lord of all creation, and HIS Words are infallible. Not the pope.
Peace
Galatians 5:2 "Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing."
^^ Christian means to be Christ-like/like Christ...Jesus Christ was circumcised on the eight day. “Be like Christ”. ^^
Enjoy your crucifixen ordeal. I think it's rather arrogant to pretend you can match the works of your saviour.
Romans 2:29, Romans 3:30, Acts 15:10, I Corinthians 7:18, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 6:15, Philippians 3:2, Colossians 2:12, Matthew 9:12
All these passages make clear that circumcision is not part of Christianity.
If you can't accept that the NT overrides the OT, you must have a rough life; avoiding menstruating women, stoning your disobedient children, eating kosher, forcing raped virgins to marry their attackers, etc.
Hugh7,
The circumcision in and of itself can not save you as you can see by the Israelites that died in the wilderness, the same ones that the Lord swore would not enter into His rest which were all circumcised.
And why did He swear that they would not enter into His rest?
Because they did not believe (no faith) and did not obey His words (rebellion).
Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 6:19that the most important aspect of our salvation is “keeping the commandments of God”.
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Now this is my opinion (of which everybody has one).
Paul was given the assignment of teaching the gospel to pagans, "aliens without hope, who made sacrifices to devils"(1Corinthians 10:20). The first thing that he wanted to do was introduce them to Jesus and His Words which by the way was the Old Testament, His Words which are spirit and they are life. Teach them to obey His laws and after they were full of the Spirit--His Words--they would realize and understand the importantance of the circumcision.
Those Gentiles were just like the "Gentiles" of today--afraid to let go of the flesh.
Peace
TLC Tugger
"……. it's rather arrogant to pretend you can match the works of your saviour…"
I beg to differ, your arrogance is showing: …. the NT overrides the OT….. If this is true, you have thrown these verses (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews13:8) into the dung heap. Correct?
It is evident that you have no idea Whose words are Old Testament Scripture. The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament is the same God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Son of Man, Jesus.
I notice that all of your references are the writings of Paul, and in Paul’s defense I am certain that he taught the very same ordinances that the Lord spoke to Moses. However, these were very new concepts for the "uncircumcised in the heart and flesh" to grasp with understanding, so he used a different teaching style.
I see this to be true because immediately after Acts 15 (which most uncircumcised “Christians” base their judgment--White Throne--on, Revelation 20:12. You know the one, where “the books are opened”, the books of the Bible), He circumcised Timothy whose father was a Greek, Acts 16:1-4 “ …….Enjoy your crucifixen ordeal……..” Do you think he did?
Another thing that is obvious is that you did not read (in entirety) my Brother’s Post, just as the comments before you.
In closing, this Blog is about rightly dividing the word of truth not argument and debate because at the end of the day only Christ’s Words will stand.
Peace and blessings to All
To ALL,
I refer you to the post
JESUS THE UNKNOWN GOD
http://kingskid3.blogspot.com/2007/09/let-us-be.html
Peace
What we must be careful is that, when the fulfillment of God's covenant promises come, we no longer need to go back to that which pointed to the fulfillment. Many things in the OT foreshadowed and pointed to greater things to come. The high priest pointed to the Great High Priest, Christ. The temple pointed to Christ Himself (John 2:19) and the people of God in Christ (Eph 2:19-22; 1 Pet 2:5). And there are many other things.
Circumcision of the flesh was a pointer to something greater. You are correct in seeing it as an everlasting covenant. But that fulfillment of that everlasting covenant continues to be fulfilled by Christ as He circumcises His people by heart. Even Jeremiah saw this greater day coming (Jer 4:4).
Paul makes it clear that it is not about physical circumcision. Romans 2:28-29 says, "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter." This passage teaches that a Jew is one who is circumcised in heart by the Spirit. Though I was born in America, I am actually a Jew, according to this Scripture. As someone quoted earlier, Galatians 6:15 says, "For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation." It is all about become a new creation in Christ, by the Spirit of God.
One can still choose to be circumcised, but the requirement is not needed to be considered part of God's people. One becomes a part of God's people, His body, His bride, His household, through faith in Christ. Colossians 2:11 makes it clear that we are to be ones with a circumcision made without hands. That is what counts.
I will end with a longer quote from a theologian who wrote the book "Knowing Jesus Through the Old Testament". Christopher Wright says:
"Imagine a father who, in the days before mechanized transport, promises his son, aged 5, that when he is 21 he will give him a horse for himself. Meanwhile the motor car is invented. So on his 21st birthday the son awakes to find a motor car outside, “with love from Dad”. It would be a strange son who would accuse his father of breaking his promise just because there was no horse. And even stranger if, in spite of having received the far superior motor car, the son insisted that the promise would only be fulfilled if a horse also materialized, since that was the literal promise. It is obvious that with the change in circumstances, unknown at the time the promise was made, the father has more than kept his promise. In fact he has done so in a way that surpasses the original words of the promise which were necessarily limited by the mode of transport available at the time. The promise was made in terms understood at the time. It was fulfilled in the light of new historical events."
You see, in Christ, the greater thing (motor vehicle) has come. There is no need to go back to what pointed to Him and the new covenant (the horse). Let us walk in the greatness of the new covenant, remembering where we came from, but not being bound to that which pointed to something better.
Scott,
Mr. Wright's and your analogy is faulty. What does the Lord say? Not Paul nor any other man.
Please read Ezekiel 44:1-9
7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations. 8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Psalms 118:8
Peace
I do believe it is ok to quote Paul, since he had the apostolic authority to write much of Scripture, given that authority by Christ Himself. The OT is our great heritage, but BY ITSELF it is insufficient for our faith in Christ. We must view the NT as the greatest help in interpreting the words of the OT, as the great fulfillment of the OT. The OT by itself is a story without an ending, and the NT by itself is a story with no beginning. We need the NT to understand the OT. As one theologian remarks,
"The Old Testament is no longer the last word...since the Messiah of prophecy Himself has come as the last Word. The New Testament has been written as the ultimate norm for the fulfillment and interpretation of Israel’s prophecies. A Christian would deny his Christian faith and Lord if he reads the Old Testament as a closed entity, as the full and final message of God for Jews irrespective of the cross and resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, and apart from the New Testament explanation of the Hebrew writings."
As for quoting other theologians, they are not Scripture writers or Christ, but they are worth noting and reading as they look to study the Scriptures with great knowledge. What makes it worth listening to you or me other than we look to study the Scripture and understand them just as they do?
So, we cannot keep quoting OT Scriptures without finding their full understanding in the NT. We don't throw out the OT, and I know that as I taught the OT for 3 years in a ministry college. But as the writer to the Hebrews says,
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." (12:22-24)
According to this inspired writer of Scripture, those in Christ have entered Mount Zion, Jerusalem, the assembly of the firstborn (which oddly enough Israel was called God's firstborn, Exodus 4:22-23, and they were the ones to enter the temple). But this Hebrews passage shows that we are the ones who enter God's temple because we are in Christ, the righteous one, the perfect one, the one to fulfill all of God's promises. Our circumcision, the one that truly counts in the eyes of God, has happened in Christ.
The OT by itself is a story without an ending,
I disagree, the Old Testament the complete story. The New Testament is not a new story, it testifies of that which the Scriptures had already declared. You need to read it again. This time without man’s doctrine molding your view, there is not one thing left out of the Old Testament that would make it “a story without and ending”.
....But this Hebrews passage shows that we are the ones who enter God's temple because we are in Christ, the righteous one, the perfect one, the one to fulfill all of God's promises. Our circumcision, the one that truly counts in the eyes of God, has happened in Christ.
If you are truly in Christ, then you will be obedient unto death just as Christ was. Doesn't Christian mean to be Christ like; like Christ?
I take it that you did not read the Scripture reference: Ezekiel 44:9, even though I posted it in my comment. Scott I see where you are coming from, you refuse to acknowledge or even research a pure, basic reading of what the Lord is saying to us ALL. Yes, I understand that you have gone to “theological school”, and no, I have not. I think my unbiased understanding of scripture of and obedience to it (the Word of God) will ensure that my name is in the Lamb’s Book of Life and secure my place in the Lord’s Kingdom. If at the end of the day, I find that “it did not take all that”, what have I lost? I will still be eligible to enter into God’s rest. However, if what Christ said in the Old Testament still holds true today, (and it does) what may I ask is your destiny?
Peace
By the way, please read the reference in my previous comment (Eze. 44:1-9) do you see that this is a prophecy for the future?
Let God's Word intrepret God's Word.
Dear Mark:
I hope that you will put your trust in the Lord; Psalms 4:5, and not man; Psalms 146:3. For The Scriptures say in the day that you hear His voice harden not you heart (mind). It is the Lord’s voice that we must obey and not man.
So I ask, can you show me in the scriptures where the LORD says you do not have to be circumcised, instead of what you think some man has said?
Dear Hugh:
I see you quoted Paul in Galatians 5:2, but have you read what Paul says in Romans 3:1-2? Here Paul writes that the circumcision will profit you much in every way.
Dear Scott:
I notice that you say you taught Ministry at a college, well, that tells me that you teach the doctrine of that college or religion. You can not use the New Testament to try to explain the Old but, but the Old to interpret the New.
Have you read the Scriptures in the New Testament where Paul wrote that he persuaded them out of the Law of Moses and of the Prophets? (Acts 28:23) Also, in Acts 26:22-23, he said only those things which Moses and the Prophets say should come.
You can not find ANYWHERE in the Scriptures that you do not have to be circumcised. Matter of fact, if you would have read my post in it’s entirety with an open mind, you would have heard the voice of the Lord in Ezekiel 44.
No man can circumvent any of God’s Words, for His Word is Law. Oh, BTW, the Old Testament prophecies are not yet finished. Here is an example:
Luke 4:16-21, Jesus was given the Book of the Prophet Isaiah. He read Isaiah 61:1-2, closed the book.
After closing the book He said that these two verses were fulfilled. Why didn’t He read any further in the book of Isaiah about the building of the old waste cities, Israel being in their land, and called the trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord? Because, He will fulfill these prophecies when He comes back. So, as you can see all of the Old Testament Scriptures are not yet fulfilled.
To say or teach that you do not have to be circumcised is blasphemy of the Word, and will not be forgiven, in this life or the next; Matthew 12:31-32.
We should be very careful about what we say “is no more”.
Brother Tyrone
Please excuse typos:
....harden not your heart (mind). Hebrews 4:7
Brother Ty, are you referring to Pope Pius XII as "some man"? I'd certainly trust his word on interpretation of the scriptures over yours. Maybe you're talking about Paul, but the same applies.
I'm aware of Romans 3:1-2, but you have to read that in light of Romans 2:25-29, in particular 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
To cite Matthew 12:31-32 is out of place, but since you brought it up, I personally believe that it would be more likely to apply to those suggest that Christians have to circumcise, rather than those who suggest they shouldn't.
Anyone saying that being Christian means that you have to circumcise has a real problem explaining the opposition of the Catholic church, and the fact that 95% of Christians worldwide do not circumcise.
Umm, so where did my last comment go?
What's going on? Are comments only allowed now if they agree with you?
Mark said:
...has a real problem explaining the opposition of the Catholic church, and the fact that 95% of Christians worldwide do not circumcise.
Sorry Mark, but there is no problem explaining it: Matt 7:13-15
...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction.
Peace
BTW my Brother will be responding to you shortly.
Mark:
I see you still have not considered that you must be circumcised. Well, how about this: Jesus spoke of the circumcision in John 7:21-23; that it was a law not to be broken.
What man can say otherwise? Oh, BTW, Jesus said something that goes over everyone’s head in John 4:21-22, Jesus said “Salvation is of the Jews (Israel) and you must do the same think Abraham did, if you are to become his seed, physically, or spiritually. The Lord called Abraham and blessed him alone; Isaiah 51:1-2. I see you are refusing to hear God’s voice. I suggest that you read Psalms 4:5.
As far as Matthew 12:31-32: it is talking about blasphemy against God’s word; like changing God’s Word when God has not spoken on such things. Read Matthew 12:31-37.
All I ask is can you show where the LORD says that you do not have to be circumcised in the flesh. Such as thus said the LORD, I hear the LORD’s voice and not the voice of another; John 10:1-5.
But you say that someone else says you can enter another way. Check out my post on the true Church that I am writing;
Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Did you read Ezekiel 44:1-9? If not you should.
Peace
Bro Ty
P.S
....for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
The LAW from Zion
The Word from Jerusalem
NOT ROME!
Peace
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